The Italy Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

5 posters

Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Geotherm Tue May 22, 2018 4:25 pm

Well, after 13+ years here this is a observation.

Initially when we arrived here, the chicken was very soft and tender, whether you cooked it yourself or in a restaurant. After a few years it turned to the plastic type, so mass production ruled.

Lamb chops: the sheep are galloped over the hills , so you get a little overpriced nugget in the middle of a more expensive piece of bone and usually completely overcooked. The same goes with pork. Beef can be far better if you get from a good butcher, but again it is a chance

Risotto: Glue on a plate, reminds me of a coach trip from Bangkok to Koh Samui at the roadside stop where they served a rice type gruel. Think it should be used as superglue as paella is far better.

Fish: So some of decent size (sea bass/bream/ turbot and salmon  and also some decent monkfish if you can find them. The Chinese supermarket I use does have excellent large size crab or legs, which are rare to  find.

Considering this is supposed to be the best cuisine in Europe and with so many restaurants in the UK closing  then the magic must have worn off with the prices. Better to eat on a street stall in Asia for value for money and better flavoured noodles.
Geotherm
Geotherm
Moderator

Location : Amandola Marche
Posts : 622
Join date : 2013-05-20

http://www.geotherm.it

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Gala Placidia Mon May 28, 2018 4:11 pm

Geo, the problem with chicken purchased at supermarkets or even some poultry shops is not free range. Unless you have a reliable supplier, it will taste like plastic.
Lamb chops... I prefer a forequarter or a leg of baby lamb roasted with rosemary and basted with lemon juice.
As for risotto, I do not think it would be fair to compare it with paella.  Two different varieties of rice, different preparation styles... not much in common. Risotto is supposed to be a creamy rice while paella is much drier and the grains should separate (if it is properly cooked)
Fish... it will all depend on where you buy it.
I have some objections regarding Italian cuisine being considered the best in Europe and I think that at least both Spain and France will strongly object. On the other hand, I do not think that any country will qualify as having the best cuisine in the world. There are excellent and tasty dishes in any country and there are also good and bad restaurants and good and bad cooks. I personally favour eclecticism, pick the best elements in every cuisine and enjoy it!
Gala Placidia
Gala Placidia
Moderator

Posts : 1840
Join date : 2013-05-20

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Geotherm Mon May 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Thanks Gala.
We used to always buy our chicken direct from the local slaughterhouse, but even that now seems to be the plastic type.
Lamb: Sapori di Mare used to have New Zealand lamb chops, but a few years ago they stopped and now it is only the miniscule ones you can find anywhere at the highest price for a lump of bone possible. Yes, I do like a roast leg of lamb pierced with garlic and covered with rosemary, as also a roast pork joint with the skin on, which my local butcher will supply.
With risotto, yes I do accept it is a different type of rice, probably similar to a sticky rice, but sadly without flavour. I normally buy Basmati,for the nutty flavour in 10kg bags, unless for another flavour Jasmine rice. Paella does have much more taste in my opinion.
We all have our own opinions having travelled to many countries, but I do feel the standard of food and quality here is dropping very much.
Geotherm
Geotherm
Moderator

Location : Amandola Marche
Posts : 622
Join date : 2013-05-20

http://www.geotherm.it

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Gala Placidia Mon May 28, 2018 5:25 pm

I am afraid that this is the case almost everywhere as food is mass produced. Unless you can buy directly from the producer, you get mass produced food which is tasteless. Even vegetables grown in greenhouses and under the best possible conditions are tasteless. Tomatoes are the typical example. Nothing much we can do... The use of fresh herbs and good spices always helps.
Gala Placidia
Gala Placidia
Moderator

Posts : 1840
Join date : 2013-05-20

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Geotherm Mon May 28, 2018 7:11 pm

I do remember asking for lemon chicken in either Vietnam or Cambodia. It arrived like a Italian lamb chop, all bone with a little bit of meat. At least it was a lot cheaper.
Geotherm
Geotherm
Moderator

Location : Amandola Marche
Posts : 622
Join date : 2013-05-20

http://www.geotherm.it

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Gala Placidia Tue May 29, 2018 5:11 am

Food costs have increased a lot over the last 10 years. And I would agree in that the quality has not done the same. I don't really know what has happened since 2016 as my husband's illness has prevented us from travelling, but I guess that the trend has maintained itself. I was able to check food prices not only in Italy, but also in France and Spain. The last time I was able to check, Italy's prices were similar to France's, which has always been the most expensive out of the three... with one remark, though, France's quality has maintained itself, consumers must have done something about it. Spain is having a mixed bag, it is still possible to get good, natural food, but you need to know where to buy it.
One big problem is fish, because of the anisakis plague. We need to freeze everything before hand and then... what is the point to buy fresh fish... And I can tell you that it is not a minor problem. I was at a fishmonger's when he proceeded to clean and eviscerate a freshly caught hake... which happened to be full of anisakis. I ran away from the shop. Disgusting!
Gala Placidia
Gala Placidia
Moderator

Posts : 1840
Join date : 2013-05-20

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Vicino Tue May 29, 2018 1:30 pm

Geo (and Gala ! you've put me right off fish now !!),

Having been around Le Marche for a few years now, without a doubt the food is poor in restaurants, there is an element of 'same old same old' but meat is usually over cooked or grisly. Lamb !!!!!!!!!!! Aaargh ! I cannot believe it, a huge bone and little tiny morsel of edible something in the centre. The proof of the pudding for me is the amount of 'stuff' left on my plate when I have finished, bones, skin, fat. 

In general I don't think the cooks/chefs take any care, just throw it on the bracia and come back later, 

V

Sad Mad
Vicino
Vicino
Elder

Posts : 534
Join date : 2013-05-25

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Gala Placidia Tue May 29, 2018 2:03 pm

Vicino , sorry my information about anidáis is unpalatable, but it is better than ingesting those worms... or seeing them. Here is some information https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/anisakiasis/faqs.html#prevent
I am only buying frozen fish, because if yo7 have a close look at the recommendation regarding freezing it is rather complicated to control temperTures using a domestic freezer.
As you rightly say, you can only enjoy good food if there is a lot of TLC put into the cooking.
Gala Placidia
Gala Placidia
Moderator

Posts : 1840
Join date : 2013-05-20

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Geotherm Tue May 29, 2018 2:34 pm

Just buy the frozen fish V. I am getting some later this week for a fish curry. Monkfish, merluzzo, squid, scallops and prawns, plus if I can make it to the Chinese shop the crab legs.
I did have to send the young lady in the local fish frozen fish shop a recipe, as she wondered why I was buying so much!!!
I do agree very much about the lamb chops you described, as do reference them to the chicken that must have been galloped up the road.
The best lamb I have ever tasted was in Saudi Arabia, as was slow baked goat.Bit messy having to use hands though to eat it on the beach!!!
Geotherm
Geotherm
Moderator

Location : Amandola Marche
Posts : 622
Join date : 2013-05-20

http://www.geotherm.it

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by alan h Tue May 29, 2018 6:56 pm

If you are cooking the fish - that kills the anisakis, so you only need to freeze it if you are going to eat it raw, or undercooked.
alan h
alan h
Elder

Location : On the slopes of Mottarone, Piemonte
Posts : 78
Join date : 2015-09-21

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Gala Placidia Wed May 30, 2018 4:57 am

Sorry, Alan, but just cooking fish or seafood will not guarantee the Anisakis is killed. Internal temperature has to be controlled. It will have to be at least 60 degrees C. A fish fillet will need 10 minutes cooking... which means it will be overcooked. It is not easy. The best way is to do proper cleaning and freezing as the fish are caught. This is why I am only buying frozen fish from reliable sources. After seeing what Anisakis looks like, anyone will opt for that.
Gala Placidia
Gala Placidia
Moderator

Posts : 1840
Join date : 2013-05-20

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Admin Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:12 pm

It only affects fish that isn't cooked at at least 60 degrees for at least 10 seconds (careful on the BBQ) or frozen at -20 for 2 days. 

We did all about this on my food safety course as anchovies are locally fished. They always gut the fish on the boat immediately and anchovies in this area are usually salted and neither the parasite nor it's eggs can survice past 6 weeks in salt. Anchovies are usually salted for much longer. The other way to eat them here is deep fried or stuffed and baked.

The biggest risk is with sushi (obviously raw) and fish that has not been previously frozen.

Going back to Italian food, I think it depends on what you eat. If you like spicy food then Le Marche is food hell. I even got told off for eating parsley when pregnant!

Unless things have changed in the 6 years I've been gone, Le Marche does some good plain food but without spice or much herbs (or vegetables come to that). The mussels and calamari are the best I've ever had. I've also eaten amazing home-made prosciutto and salami there. The bread is dreadful, however.

In Liguria they eat a LOT more vegetables and it is the traditional Mediterranean diet with lots of fish, veggies, nuts, olive oil etc. However, the quality of the fruit and veg is lower (nowhere to really grow it here). We have an incredible butcher who has his own cows. He's really fussy about where his other meat comes from so we have pork from Piemonte and rabbit from our village. Sorry to make you envious but our sheep must be a different breed and a leg of lamb here is a big juicy traditionally recognisable one not the mean, stringy ones I was used to in Le Marche which I never ordered. The bread here is heavily influenced by France I suspect (we're very near the border) and is excellent.

We are fussy shoppers though and I do think that is the key. Fish comes from my daughter's friends's family boat and fish stall who only sell today's catch and are usually sold out by 10am. Meat from our fab butcher. Veg and fruit from the local greengrocer who is supplied locally wherever possible. I buy a lot at the local farmer's markets too.

I enjoy having more vegetables in my diet so the food here suits me better.

I can't agree about French food being better I'm afrid and neither do the French in this area. We are swamped with French diners at the weekend coming into Italy to eat Sunday lunch and Saturday dinner! There is no great tide in the other direction.

As for eating in restaurants - I think you need to be prepared to travel to eat well. Some of the best meals I've had in Le Marche were in the mountains. 

Here, you need to pick very well or you may end up ina tourist trap over-priced place. Isn't that true of most touristy destinations though?

Although I think you'd have a heart attack at the price of eating out here. We definitely pay Riviera prices!
Admin
Admin
Admin

Location : Italy
Posts : 714
Join date : 2013-05-16

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Gala Placidia Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:16 pm

Penny, sorry, but there is something wrong in the information you were given. It is not the cooking temperature thAt should be 60º C but the internal temperature of the cooked fish that has to reach 145F or 63ºC for a minimum of 10 seconds. It is advised to use a thermometer (the one you use for meat or poultry will do). All reliable sources of information available through Google saythe same. It also makes sense as cooking temperature for baking fish is 180ºC and if you fry fish in extra virgin olive oil you heat it to 160-175ºC as a lower temperature will change the texture of the fish and will make it greasy. It is difficult to measure the internal temperature of fish unless you are baking a whole fish. In any case undercooking is to be avoided and microwave cooking is not recommended. In any case, you are lucky to have a good supplier for fish and a great butcher. 
I have been told that to oven bake fish covered with a thick coat of coarse salt and egg white is the way to go. I can send you the recipe.
As for food and restaurants, generalizing is not a good idea. There are good chefs and bad chefs and then it is a matter of personal taste. They have just announced the best 100 restaurants in the world and this year Modena’s Osteria Francescana heads the list 
https://m.theworlds50best.com/index.html
Gala Placidia
Gala Placidia
Moderator

Posts : 1840
Join date : 2013-05-20

Back to top Go down

please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good Empty Re: please can anyone tell me why Italian food is considered so good

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum